Bush Admin. students of Nazi propaganda tactics?

on Jun 24, 2005

have copies of his pay records that show Bush DID NOT ATTEND drills in the second half of 1972. I also have a copy of the order that grounded him for not taking the required physical. I have E-Mails and letters from George Bush's Economics Prof at Harvard who he told that his fathers friends got him in and out of the National Guard. You are the one that does not know what you are talking about. The story about Bush on CBS was ALL true even though they used fake documents. The documents I have copies of were released by DoD and are the REAL THING

--Hmmm, where exactly did you get those documents COL ?

152

Toblerone

on Jun 24, 2005

These are people that think they will get 72 virgins when they blow up a busload of children. You don't think that's crazy?

Is it any crazier than the millions of supposedly sane people that believe you go to heaven or hell when you die?

153

bakerstreet

on Jun 24, 2005

"Is it any crazier than the millions of supposedly sane people that believe you go to heaven or hell when you die?"

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... yep.

154

Toblerone

on Jun 24, 2005

How? Both beliefs are qualitatively the same it is only the content that is different.

155

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on Jun 24, 2005

How? Both beliefs are qualitatively the same it is only the content that is different

--Because you have one that involves rewarding those who murder innocent people...the other, does not involve anyone but the specific person who believes that having to die... ya see?

156

Toblerone

on Jun 24, 2005

--Because you have one that involves rewarding those who murder innocent people...the other, does not involve anyone but the specific person who believes that having to die... ya see?

No I don't see. How is believing you go to heaven for doing good things a more sensible belief than believing you get rewarded for things that are bad to us, but good from their perspective? They are just different beliefs, one no better than the other, from the standpoint of whether they are true or not. Neither belief has any scientific basis. I personally believe that both beliefs are wrong but I don't think people are crazy for believing them. I've never died so how would I know.

157

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on Jun 24, 2005

No I don't see. How is believing you go to heaven for doing good things a more sensible belief than believing you get rewarded for things that are bad to us, but good from their perspective? They are just different beliefs, one no better than the other, from the standpoint if whether they ar true or not. Neither belief has any scientific basis. I personally believe that both beliefs are wrong but I don't think people are crazy for believing them. I've never died so how would I know.

--Being rewarded and going to a heavan is much more peaceful, "perfecting" ones self/being honest,caring, true to god (when referring to christianity) you go to heaven, or a place/thing similar...like what i've learned along my path to enlightenment (I'm a Buddhist)The killing and being rewarded is a fanatical blotch on Islam,which they are supposse to be Muslims and would therefore follow the Qur'an, which forbids killing.....those who suicide bomb,etc... are heretics of a fairly peaceful religion...i have learned the other know...my soon to be wife is moslem...

158

Toblerone

on Jun 25, 2005

--Being rewarded and going to a heavan is much more peaceful, "perfecting" ones self/being honest,caring, true to god (when referring to christianity) you go to heaven, or a place/thing similar...like what i've learned along my path to enlightenment (I'm a Buddhist)The killing and being rewarded is a fanatical blotch on Islam,which they are supposse to be Muslims and would therefore follow the Qur'an, which forbids killing.....those who suicide bomb,etc... are heretics of a fairly peaceful religion...i have learned the other know...my soon to be wife is moslem...

I'm not denying that it is a much nicer philsophy that you should get rewarded for doing peaceful good things. I'm just saying that what we believe SHOULD happen in the after life has no bearing on whether it what we believe IS more valid than other opposing beliefs. Some people would argue that finding paradise for performing good deeds in the after life is equally as fanciful as finding 72 virgins waiting for you for blowing people up. Life isn't always fair why should the after life be?

However, my point is NOT really about the nature of the afterlife, if such a thing exists, itself but rather the objective validity of the terrorist's beliefs with regards to opposing beliefs and consequently what that would say about their respective sanities. If you think someone is crazy for believing they will be rewarded with 72 virgins you are just as justified in saying that people that believe in heaven, nirvana or whatever else are crazy too.

Whether these people are true moslems or not has no bearing on the above arguement either. I certainly agree that their beliefs have no resemblance to their supposed religion, but then most religions have different interpretations simply because the mind is subjective. People believe what they want to believe, that isn't insanity, that is human nature.

159

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on Jun 25, 2005

I'm just saying that what we believe SHOULD happen in the after life has no bearing on whether it what we believe IS more valid than other opposing beliefs.

--ehhh...ok, granted, that would be religious Supremacy on ones part...

Life isn't always fair why should the after life be?

--because according to these faiths, after you steadfast faith you should be rewarded, just like they both have places for non-believers...

If you think someone is crazy for believing they will be rewarded with 72 virgins you are just as justified in saying that people that believe in heaven, nirvana or whatever else are crazy too.

--But whydo you think they are crazy...I don't, i am saying that according to their faith, what they are doing is wrong, that they are being led down the "wrong" path in islam...where they would not receive the 72 virgins...

--You said:

If you think someone is crazy for believing they will be rewarded with 72 virgins you are just as justified in saying that people that believe in heaven, nirvana or whatever else are crazy too.

--No, they are not "crazy", but mis-led...according to islam,which is what they are suppose to be following...

People believe what they want to believe, that isn't insanity, that is human nature.

--hmmm? i don't know...

160

Toblerone

on Jun 25, 2005

--No, they are not "crazy", but mis-led...according to islam,which is what they are suppose to be following...

Dr. Bailey I'm sorry I think I have attributed a few opinions of Bakerstreets to you since he was the one who started the discussion. He was saying that they are crazy. As long as you aren't saying they are crazy I agree with you.

--hmmm? i don't know...

Yeah, maybe human nature IS insanity. That is a whole other thread though...

161

messybuu

on Jun 25, 2005

Hitler was a vegetarian. Therefore, all vegetarians are Nazis.

162

Toblerone

on Jun 25, 2005

Hitler was a vegetarian. Therefore, all vegetarians are Nazis.

No comment.

163

Champas Socialist

on Jun 26, 2005

"Hitler was a vegetarian. Therefore, all vegetarians are Nazis."

I agree! (I'm a vegetarian). I also wear socks. Hitler wore socks too. Do you wear socks? If so, you may as well draw a swastika on them.

By the way did anyone else notice that the title of this article finishes with a question mark, not an exclamation mark? Did those same people happen to notice the words "students of", not "users of"? And what about that word in between Nazi and tactics...did you notice it? Not many, if any, not many, if any.

164

messybuu

on Jun 26, 2005

By the way did anyone else notice that the title of this article finishes with a question mark, not an exclamation mark? Did those same people happen to notice the words "students of", not "users of"? And what about that word in between Nazi and tactics...did you notice it? Not many, if any, not many, if any.

Oh, so Toblerone was asking a yes or no question and was in no way implying that Bush was a student of Nazi propaganda. That changes everything, so here's my new response: No.
I'll also fix my previous comment: "Hitler was a vegetarian. Therefore, are all vegetarians students of National Socialism? The shared trait between Hitler and all other vegetarians speaks for itself."

165

bakerstreet

on Jun 26, 2005

"By the way did anyone else notice that the title of this article finishes with a question mark, not an exclamation mark? Did those same people happen to notice the words "students of", not "users of"? And what about that word in between Nazi and tactics...did you notice it? Not many, if any, not many, if any."

Please, stop banging that naive little drum. You can add 50 question marks, and it will STILL be patently obvious that this is just another way to get Bush and Nazi in the same sentence.

As has been pointed out, the rhetorical tactic in question has been used over and over. Toblerone's feelings on Iraq are pretty obvious. You REALLY expect us to believe this is just an objective discussion of two apparently dissimilar groups who HAPPEN to use the same tactics?

Pfft. And Al Gore just snatched the phrase "Brown Shirts" off the top of his head randomly when refering to Republicans. This happens way too often to be coincidence from either side.